Team Blitz India
The following are the excerpt of the proceedings in the House of Lords on the situation in Ukraine
Regarding the idea that we try to summon Vladimir Putin to the table, it is not the right time to do that and it is not our war; it is for Ukraine to defend itself, with our support and that of our NATO allies
Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD) My Lords, this has been a very welcome debate and, like other noble Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, for bringing it. I am very glad that I do not have to respond from the Government Front Bench, but I note that it is currently 4.15 pm and the Order Paper suggests that the House is expected to rise at 7 pm. That suggests an awfully long time for the Front Benches to wind, but I assume that the noble Baroness, Lady Goldie, does not intend to spend a couple of hours responding for the Government….
In previous debates on the situation in Ukraine, we have talked a lot about the detail of what is happening, …but there are many more issues that we need to think about, including the geopolitics of the region and broader thinking about the NATO alliance. The assumption in most of the contributions today has been that NATO is united in supporting Ukraine but we might be slightly worried about where the United States is going.
However, I want to pick up on a theme that was briefly touched on by the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, and that is the situation in Poland. I want to talk about Ukraine, Russia and NATO but also a little bit more about the emerging order….
The opening point is that from these Benches we support His Majesty’s Government. There is no space for appeasement. Regarding the idea that we try to summon Vladimir Putin to the table, it is not the right time to do that and it is not our war; it is for Ukraine to defend itself, with our support and that of our NATO allies.
We have already heard from the noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, and others that opinion in the United States is somewhat shaky. So far, the NATO support for Ukraine has been led by the United States, with President Biden in office. American citizens need to be persuaded that there is a reason to continue supporting Ukraine.
Public opinion polls matter, and I therefore ask what assessment the Government have made of support for Ukraine from the United States, in particular from a change in government—not just a return to the Trump Administration but to another Republican President of the United States…
The importance of this issue was highlighted two years ago with the American withdrawal from Afghanistan —the noble Lord, Lord Balfe, mentioned this and the earlier Russian withdrawal from Afghanistan. If there was a lesson from the withdrawal two years ago, it was that, once the United States pledges to withdraw from somewhere, the rest of NATO follows. In many ways, that empowered Putin to feel that he could maybe take action against Ukraine.
We need a solid and united NATO. His Majesty’s Government have been saying and doing the right things, but we need all our NATO partners to be on the same page working together. …
The United States has been mentioned by others. One country that I think has not been mentioned today is Turkey, a long-standing, European, non-EU member of NATO, one that has in the past procured weapons from Russia, has perhaps sought to placate Russia in some ways, and has not necessarily always abided by sanctions against Russia…What conversations are we having bilaterally with Turkey to make sure that it is wholly on board with NATO commitments?
Sticking with the question of grain, what we have seen just today is Poland making the extraordinary announcement that it will stop exporting arms to Ukraine over the grain situation. Several east central European countries have perhaps looked a little shaky in their support for Ukraine, but the one country that initially seemed rock solid in its support was Poland. Indeed, it called for Ukraine to be fast-tracked into the European Union, if I recall correctly. Yet now it is saying that it will not continue arms exports. If NATO fragments, what future is there for supporting Ukraine? We really need to shore up that alliance.
Beyond that, however, we need to do rather more in ensuring that there is Commonwealth support. I think that my namesake, the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Basildon, mentioned the Commonwealth—she is looking in my direction, and I hope that I noted that correctly. But it is vital that we talk to our Commonwealth partners and allies to make sure that, as far as possible, we are all able to support Ukraine, even if this is a European war. ..We need to be able to have open dialogue and try to persuade our Commonwealth partners of the importance of what is happening in Ukraine for sovereignty and independence.
Within Europe, there are a couple of areas that we need to be thinking about a little more. The noble Lord, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, mentioned Nagorno-Karabakh. The noble Lords, Lord Cormack and Lord Owen, mentioned Bosnia-Herzegovina. These are areas with significant Russian influence. Ukraine is not an isolated case; it is the case where Russia has invaded, but we need to be very aware that Russia has its tentacles in parts of the Balkans…and indeed in parts of Africa…What work are His Majesty’s Government doing to ensure that the western Balkans are stabilised…
Finally, there are two areas on which I think we would welcome His Majesty’s Government giving a few more comments. One is the future support for Ukraine….What is the position of the current Secretary of State? He seems to be silent on the question of Ukraine, so a little bit of reassurance on the current position would be very welcome.
Beyond that, what are the views of His Majesty’s Government on dealing with Russia and war crimes? Although the House was almost united in its views, there were one or two voices at the end that had slightly different positions on how this war should end. However, we should all be speaking with one voice to say that it is absolutely vital that war crimes be tackled and that the perpetrators, including Vladimir Putin, be held to account. Do His Majesty’s Government agree?
